This is an autogenerated transcript and has not been edited by humans. 

Victoria Raschke: Welcome to WitchLit, a place to talk about the craft of writing and writing the craft. I'm your host, Victoria Raschke, author, publisher, witch and nosy Scorpio. Witchlit is brought to you by Thousandfold Press, a family owned, independent publisher established to produce the books we want to see in the world. Titles including changing paths by Yvonne Abaro, conjuring the Commonplace by Laine Fuller and Cory Thomas Hutcheson A, uh, Death in the Dry river by Lisa Allen Agostini and my most recent book, Verona Green, can be purchased directly from thousandvoltpress.com m or wherever you buy books. You can also support the show by buying us a cup of coffee at ko fi.com witchlitpodcast. Courtney Weber is a witch writer, tarot advisor, and teacher. She is the creator of the Tarot of the Burrows and the author of Hecate the Morgan, Brigid, and Tarot, for one. She is also a contributor to Cancer, Witch and a co host of that Witch Life podcast. Her latest book is sacred Tears, out from Llewelyn in June 2024.

Courtney Weber: Courtney Weber, welcome to WitchLit. Thank you so much for having me. This is. I was so excited to get this invitation because, aw, y'all do good things. And I'm like, oh, yay. Maybe I'm doing good things too, if they'll have me.

Victoria Raschke: Well, thank you. That's really sweet. Yeah.

Courtney Weber: Um.

Victoria Raschke: Um, uh, Marcus, who, uh, many people will know, does the, er, person really well. And then I deal with mostly, and he was like, would you like to have Courtney on the show? I was like, yes, please.

Courtney Weber: Marcus is wonderful. He has just been, ah, such a support. Yeah, it's just. Yeah, it's been. The work with Llewellyn has been really great. I've been very, very happy. They're. They've all been so supportive and wonderful. And this is actually the first. Well, not. No, no, it's not the first, but it's one of the first podcasts I've done about this book. So it's.

Victoria Raschke: Oh, cool.

Courtney Weber: Yeah, yeah.

Victoria Raschke: Well, exciting. Um, not that I'm about getting the scoop, but it's kind of nice to get the scoop. So our first question for everybody, and I'm really excited to have you answer this question because I feel like you've done some really interesting things, but, you know, kind of in this age of, like, saturation of media and there's just so much out there. Why still write? Why still write books?

Courtney Weber: Gosh. Because I don't know what else to do with myself. Is that fair?

Victoria Raschke: Yes.

Courtney Weber: I mean, I've been writing since I was six years old. I got a diary for my 6th birthday. I still remember opening it at my birthday party and my mom telling me what it was for and how to do it. And, um, I've been writing ever since. And writing has been how I process. It's how I, um. It's how I create something for others. Um, and it is a spiritual practice for me. Um, and it's like. It's funny because you're right. We are so oversaturated right now, and yet I believe that people are reading more than ever. Um, maybe it's because I'm. You know, readers are now have a more of a platform to talk about what they're reading. But, like, I. I still think there's really. I just actually did a video on this. There's really nothing like the smell of a new book or the smell of a used bookstore or in, you know, uh, or the smell of a library. We just love to hold the book in our hands. And I think there was a fear for a while when Kindles came out that, oh, that's it for the end of the book. And it just hasn't been right, because there's just. There are certain. It's still its own form of media that we just can't quite. There's just nothing like holding a book, like getting in bed with a book and turning a page and you're pretty bookmark. And, um, being able to circle a passage that you really love that with the whisk of a pen, that feels a lot better than highlighting on a tablet, right? And that's no shame for folks who are really. Who really get a lot out of their tablets. And also, audiobooks are becoming a bigger thing. Like, folks are really excited about those because people are starting to commute again, and they're like, I don't have time to read, but I love a good story, right? And so they're like, this is my alone time. I'm in the car. And audiobooks are becoming their own art form in many ways. Like, I listen. I'm a yemenite, I'm a Game of Thrones junkie. And I listen to all the podcasts about Song of ice and fire. And I haven't heard, um, the audiobooks yet, but the podcasters that I listen to that are really into it are saying, hey, you've got to hear this narrator. Because this narrator pronounces things in a certain way, and they put an emphasis on certain words. It gives it a whole new meaning and a whole new texture. So, um, that's a long winded way of saying books haven't gone anywhere. They've just shifted with the time and we still, we still need them and we still want them. And that's why we're, that's why. And I'm still writing them because I don't, I don't know what else I do with myself. Really.

Victoria Raschke: Yeah. Uh, that totally makes sense to me. I mean, I do think there, there are certain types of writers who write because they really, they have to. Like if there's no getting around, if I didn't write novels, I'd still journal every day. Like there's. Yeah, you know, it's, it's not something you can step away from if you're wired that way, I guess.

Courtney Weber: Yeah, absolutely.

Victoria Raschke: You talk about this a little bit in the opening of sacred tears, but I guess I just kind of. Why this book? Because it feels like it's written out of. I just feels really raw. Like reading it, it just felt really raw. And I was like, wow, this is a hard place to write from. So why this book?

Courtney Weber: So I lost a pregnancy at twelve weeks, um, about going on three years ago, and I wanted to read. And afterwards it just was, the grief was so disorienting and it really felt like I'd been shifted into a whole different world. Um, the one world that looked exactly like the world I had before, but it was completely different. It was scrubbed of something. And, you know, there's nothing like death that makes you question everything you believe spiritually and everything you believed in scientifically, right? So you're like, I've lost faith in all of these things, so what's left? And, um, I was standing in a bookstore and I was looking at the self help spirituality section. I was looking for books on grief. And there were a lot of books written by lovely Christians and Buddhists, but there was nothing that spoke to my spirituality. And also, um, one of the key components of grief is that you suddenly question your spirituality in a very deep, profound way. And so it was over Christmas, my husband and I, um, were visiting my in laws, um, and we had a nice long visit with them. And my mother in law has this wonderful basement, it's super comfy. And I just sat down there like a troll for 4 hours every day, just hounding out the things that I wanted to say about grief to the witchcraft world. And the more I wrote, the more I realized it was going to be a book and that I had yet to find. There were so many great books out there about, especially the last couple of years, a lot of great books been coming out for the witchcraft world about death and, um, loss and funeral rites and connection with ancestors and really good work. And also, there wasn't a book that talked about grief and the strange pieces that go along with it. And so I kind of, like I mentioned at the beginning, I write because what else am I going to do with myself? How else was I going to get through the grief without writing about it, without one way? I was writing to myself from a few months before, and I was also writing to people who were experiencing what I was experiencing and not. And, um, you know, and looking for some tools to help them figure it out. Um, but I think it was also equally as important is to talk about the crisis of faith that happens to people of, uh, all beliefs. And it's something we don't talk about enough in the witchcraft world. I've had people quietly tell me that there are times they just don't feel magical or they're not sure they believe in the things they used to believe in because of life, events and things, and that there's a sense of, um, am I being a bad witch or am I discovering that witchcraft isn't real and it's not true? The truth is, is that a crisis of faith is part of having faith. And there's going to be moments in which you just don't believe in the things that you once did. And grief is a huge, huge catalyst for those kinds of questions. Um, and so I just. I wrote it because it needed to be said. And we're also coming out of this pandemic, um, before this was published, before the incidents in the Middle east and the incidents in Gaza, which has its own own whole level of global grief. And so I hadn't even gotten to that yet. Like, time wise, we hadn't even, you know, there was no room to even talk about that yet. But we were experiencing the, um, you know, the loss of people through the pandemic, but also the grieving, the loss of time and opportunity, um, grieving the loss of the world we once knew. So much happened during that pandemic, right, between, you know, threats of, like, really, really dire threats to democracy, to, um, climate catastrophe. And we were all dealing with these things alone. Right. And processing these things alone. And that's that. It just. I just. Honestly, Victoria just needed to be said.

Victoria Raschke: Yeah.

Courtney Weber: And it hadn't been done yet. It really wasn't the book I wanted to write. It was a book I had wanted. I would have wanted to read when I was going through what I was going through. Mhm.

Victoria Raschke: Yeah. And sometimes that is the book you have to write. Right. I know. I think one of the things about the book and um, Courtney and I talked a little bit beforehand and I got kind of teary reading a couple chapters and I think because it is, it is so timely, like so many of us are grieving so many things, including just like our faith in bigger structures or, you know, whatever. And um, it was nice to see and I think, you know, not to be spoilery, but I guess it kind of is part of the whole gist of the book is that, yeah, you're not a bad witch because you don't believe that this is going to change what's going on. It's just part of life. Like, um, you know, the tornado doesn't come for your house out of spite. It comes for your house because it's a tornado.

Courtney Weber: Yeah, it's. Exactly. And that's one of the, I, uh, mean, every, every faith group has its weaknesses in its witchcraft. We don't really have a theology and that's, I think there's a lot of benefits to that, but it also leaves a lot of room for people to, um, have a lot of confusion and blame themselves in the sense of the tornado came to me and then unfortunately there's this kind of rhetoric that goes out in the community about what was the tornado meant to teach you? You know, or were you, did you not do enough magic to counter, did the tornado come for your house because you were cursed? Did you? And what, and then it's. People start to blame themselves, like, well, if I had not, you know, I've angered the godsome house. The tornado came for me. And one of the really humbling things that I have, like I have come to believe myself and everybody believes differently. So this is nothing. You're gonna have listeners who don't agree with me and that is perfectly reasonable. But that, I don't believe that gods or spirits control this world. I do believe that they exist and they help us navigate it.

Victoria Raschke: Mhm.

Courtney Weber: So I don't believe that a tornado goes for someone's house because they were supposed to learn something. At the same time, when the tornado does come for their house, there is an opportunity to learn something, but it's not. The tornado was not designed as a lesson. Um, there might be a lesson in there if you want to look through the disaster aftermath. One of the things I talk about in, uh, the book was that when I first moved to Oregon, I was six years old, and there was a lot of ash piled up on the side of the freeways. It was about five years after Mount St. Helens blew up, and there was still a lot of ash that had nowhere to go. So they just pushed to the side of the freeway and figure it out eventually. And, um, artists made art from m that ash, the paperweights and, uh, um, other things. And the United States built a national monument so people could go and learn about volcanoes at the site. Um, and when you go to visit Mount St. Helens, there's these absolutely gorgeous purple flowers that flourish in the ash. I really want to say this about the artwork. I'm really, really very clear about this. People that made art from that ash was when ash was literally, like, in their backyards and on their roofs, on top of their cars and stuff like that. So if you go to Mount St. Helens, please do not take the ash. The ecosystem needs it to regenerate, so don't leave it, don't touch it. Those artists made it when there was literally nowhere else for it to go. Yeah, it was scooping it out of their gutters, which has its own symbolism, but it's not like the spirit said, we want to teach people to make art, so let's make the volcano blow up. No. Volcanic eruption is part of this earth's process. It has to, it has to release, uh, that pressure, that tension. But there is there, okay, well, we've had this thing that was traumatic that happened to this region. Um, now we have an opportunity. We can do something with it. We can build a monument, and we can educate people about volcanoes. And then it creates a lovely space for people to come with their families and have, make a memory and learn something. And, um, so there is an opportunity there, but I don't want people to think that the trauma was meant to happen so they could have these nice things. And so I think it's kind of unfair when someone says that to a grieving person is like, well, this happened, so now you get this consolation prize. Well, grieving person probably would rather have what they had before, the consolation prize. Um, and then, but it's also, well, at the same time, yeah, there are gifts within the rubble. There are things I can gain from it. It doesn't say that this loss was worth it. And yet there's still opportunity there. There's still a chance for me to create something out of ruin. Um, could I go back in time and take everything back and instead? Sure. Absolutely. I mean, like, if somebody said, can you go back in time and have your kid instead of this book, I'd be like, yeah, I would, you know, but okay, I don't have that option. I had ruin, so I made something out of it.

Victoria Raschke: Yeah. Um, interesting. I was thinking about that idea that somehow we've done something to anger the gods or this idea that, you know, that it comes for you for a reason.

Courtney Weber: Yeah.

Victoria Raschke: And I do wonder if part of that isn't kind of this western mindset and I think maybe even all the way back to the Greeks, that we're separate from nature.

Courtney Weber: Mhm.

Victoria Raschke: And not just part of the system.

Courtney Weber: Right.

Victoria Raschke: You know, and that. That means either we're supposed to have dominion, like, in a christian sense, and we can control things, or like you said, like, we're not a good enough witch to dissipate whatever was going to happen. And I'm like, yeah, that gives us a lot more power than I think we have.

Courtney Weber: Yeah.

Victoria Raschke: It makes us more important than I think we are, too.

Courtney Weber: Yeah. And I don't want to, like, you know, diminish the folks that it's like they've done the protection spells and yet, and their house was spared when others weren't like, okay, that that's, there's a good chance that that may be the case. Like, I have a friend out here who was doing a lot of work with water spirits. And when we had the bad fires here in 2020, the fires come up real close to her house but didn't. Didn't cross that line. And she believes that it was her work with the water spirits. And I am not going to challenge, like, it may be, you know, I don't know, but I just don't want the person next door to think that their house burned down because they didn't do enough magic. That's not exactly, that's not right, you know? So it's, uh, it's. It's tough. And I write this book with so much sensitivity because. And I also want people to hear this. They're not going to agree with me about everything in this book, and I don't want them to. I don't think they should. I think there's also a problem within witchcraft books that it's like, if you don't agree with everything the author's saying, then either there's something wrong with you as a reader or there's something wrong with them as a writer. And that is honestly setting us up for fascism. That if we have to agree with everything, and I've seen people say to like, say, I like this book, but I didn't agree with everything the author said. And I'm like, well, good. I don't think you should agree with everything the author said, but it's really a mistake to think you should cast aside a book because you don't believe and everything that the author said, if you agree with 80% of it, and 80% of it is helpful for you, cool. Right? But there's also something that's wonderful about books that challenge us, and we walk away saying, I just don't agree with anything this author said, because then it makes us think about things, and we're like, why don't I agree with that person? And so I think that's where I made it very clear at the beginning of the book is that readers, you will not agree with me on all of this. I don't expect you to. I don't want you to. You're not supposed to agree with everything. Yeah, that would be a mistake. And so I want you to go in and listen, read things, and if something that I say, uh, affirms something within you and helps your grief journey, that's great. If you don't agree with something that I say and it makes you think deeper about your grief journey and start to articulate it in a more concrete way, and that is helpful to you, that's awesome. Like, it's. This is. It is not a. It is. It is a guide. It is a. These practices worked for me. Guide. It is not a. A hard and fast manual that this is how we're supposed to grieve as witches. That is what I don't want people to think that I'm saying or to think that they should take away from it. It's like, here's what happened for me. If you find some stuff in here that works, awesome. If you find some stuff that you don't agree with, awesome. Like, it is a, you know, and that's. That's. That's what's really important to me right now. I'm very, very worried when I see these. That's a lot of times it's in Facebook groups where somebody wants to throw out a whole book because they don't agree with one thing the author said, and they're looking to find an author in which they agree with 100% of the things that they said. I think that's very, very dangerous, honestly.

Victoria Raschke: Yeah. And I don't. I don't know. Like, even authors I deeply admire, there's some stuff that I'm like, no, I can't imagine agreeing 100% about everything. That's not how humans work.

Courtney Weber: Right. And we shouldn't. Um, you know.

Victoria Raschke: I do. I do, kind of. I hadn't thought about it in that way, but setting us up for fascism is an excellent way to put that, is that, you know, that totality mentality is real dangerous.

Courtney Weber: Mhm. And they're saying, oh, that there's, there is. It is possible for one person to be 100% right and we should blindly follow them on, you know, without question. Yeah, that, and that starts, that doesn't, that doesn't start at the top. It starts at the, you know, the grassroots with that practice of believing that it's possible to 100% agree with someone and follow them unconditionally.

Victoria Raschke: Yeah. So you said, you know, this is not the book you wanted to write. Um, so what is the book like? Do you have like a. I don't know, the platonic idea of the book you want to write?

Courtney Weber: Well, so I've written a couple of novels. I wrote, um, I wrote one that, um, is, uh, called, um, Princess Firestarter. And so I had been looking for representation for that one. And then this happened and it just kind of set me off my course and I set it aside for a while. Been. And I've just finished the shitty first draft of can I curse on this, by the way?

Victoria Raschke: Yes, we.

Courtney Weber: Okay, so I just figured we were.

Victoria Raschke: Talking about witchcraft and people might get.

Courtney Weber: Yeah, so I just finished the shitty first draft of a second novel, and I'm letting it kind of sit in the back burner for a while and percolate. Um, and so I started writing this, ah, like just this raw, massive, brief book. And then I actually started, um, you know, was working on that novel, and I went to a writers conference and was focused on that. And then this one just kind of popped back up. Um, at that time, I was pregnant with my daughter and, um, you know, and was like, okay, um, if I'm going to write this, I probably should go ahead and finish it now. Um, and I pitched it to you, uh, know, I pitched it to a couple of publishers. Llewellyn was interested. And, um, you know, I just said, all right, well, let me just finish this one for now. So I, um, really would love to expand out into fiction. Um, so I've been working on that. I've also been working on some personal essays and things. And, you know, some folks have asked me about whether or not I'm going to write another goddess book, because I've written three. And they're just such. They're such an undertaking, between the research and also the personal, uh, upheaval that comes when you're working with a goddess, that it's just really, really intense. So I'm not sure about that. And I've had a lot of interest in some of my tarot work. So, um, I'm thinking about if there's what kind of tarot work to put out there in a follow up book. But at the moment, I really would love to see my fiction out there. Agents, if you're listening, I have a delicious novel that is waiting for you. Please contact me at your earliest possible convenience.

Victoria Raschke: I would love the idea that agents are listening to the show. That'd be great.

Courtney Weber: Oh, yeah.

Victoria Raschke: Um, yeah. Now, it's funny, I've talked to a lot of folks who've written nonfiction on the show. Obviously, I talked to more nonfiction folks than fiction folks. Just, I don't know why it's harder to get fiction folks on the show. Um, but I do think there is this, like, people who start writing, especially people who start writing early, I have found, seem to also want to write fiction, or they write poetry, or they write something else in addition. But nonfiction was where they got their foot in the door.

Courtney Weber: Mhm.

Victoria Raschke: Like, it seems, not a truism, but a lot.

Courtney Weber: A lot ism.

Victoria Raschke: Yeah, a lot ism.

Courtney Weber: Yeah, not a truism. It's an eladism.

Victoria Raschke: Yeah. But, um. And now I'm m kind of going backwards. Like I started. Well, actually, I did my master's degree in creative writing and poetry and realized that, um, that was not going to put food on the table. I was a single mom. So it's culinary school, like you do. Like, that's. It'll at least put food on the table. You might not be able to afford it.

Courtney Weber: You bring it home. You'll bring it home.

Victoria Raschke: Yeah, yeah.

Courtney Weber: Ah, yeah.

Victoria Raschke: Um, but, uh, uh, and then now I'm trying to write a nonfiction book and shop that. So it's been, uh, an interesting backwards journey.

Courtney Weber: It's always, it's. It's always a weird journey, isn't it? I don't. I don't. I don't know anyone that has a straightforward journey when it comes to those creative fields, especially with writing.

Victoria Raschke: No. And the other thing I find interesting, and you may have had this from people you've talked to on your show, too, is that a lot of people who are writers also have another creative outlet. It's like their creativity isn't just in the writing space, like they paint or they play an instrument, or you know, they have some other outlet in addition to writing.

Courtney Weber: Are you asking me what mine is?

Victoria Raschke: Do you have one?

Courtney Weber: Yeah, I play violin and a little guitar, but I haven't picked up my guitar in a very long time. But I play a little violin. And, um, I also have become just like, a ridiculous cake decorator. Like, my daughter's first birthday, I did a. I think it was a four tier cake.

Victoria Raschke: Nice.

Courtney Weber: And my mom came in and she said, well, when it went back when we were growing up, we didn't make these into wedding cakes. And I went, how well, you know.

Victoria Raschke: Did she get, like, the whole top of the cake to stick her face into?

Courtney Weber: You know, I kept trying to make her a smash cake, and I just. For some reason, I made these three gorgeous tears, but I kept screwing up the smash cake. So the night before her party, I told my husband in the morning, I need you just to go to the grocery store and get a cupcake. So we gave her a cupcake, and she didn't know what to do with it. She just kind of looked around, and then she ended up just throwing the whole plate at my husband. So there's this beautiful picture of the cake flying, the plate flying. My husband's like, uh, and my niece is bent over laughing. So far, it's just this beautiful moment, like, belly laugh, you know?

Victoria Raschke: So, um, yeah, my son, at his first birthday party, fell asleep in his cake. Oh, that's very cute. Yeah, that we have a lovely picture of him and his little birthday crown face, uh, down in some chocolate cake.

Courtney Weber: And that's like, this is the life we want. Life goals, child.

Victoria Raschke: Yes. Yes. Uh, it turns out he also is an excellent baker and cook, so maybe that was foretold.

Courtney Weber: Yeah. But.

Victoria Raschke: Oh, so, uh, I guess I have this question when I was reading the book, and I feel like I'm not really sure how to couch it because it sounds weird in my brain even, but, like, reading the book and thinking about just the topic, and it felt so timely and needed to me. And at the same time, I'm like, with my publisher hat on, I'm like, how do you market this book? And so did. I mean, it sounds like Llewellyn was interested, but did you kind of have a conversation about that? Like, how do we. How does this book find its place?

Courtney Weber: I guess, you know, it seemed like the place was already carved for it because there wasn't that out there. One of the things they wanted to make sure that it covered was not just grief over death.

Victoria Raschke: Yeah.

Courtney Weber: Um, they wanted to make sure that it's. There was. There were other. Other, you know, other examples of grief and such like that. So I, um, do COVR, you know, the grief over the end of a relationship, um, over the loss of community. Right. And especially in the witchcraft community, we. Our communities are pretty fragile, let's just be honest. And they don't. They. They fall apart, whether it's by, you know, conflict or just people get busy and start, you know, scattering or money, um, can be a real issue. And being able. We, you know, we don't have a lot of places that we can call our own. And so, you know, community spaces end up getting, um, changed or are switched up. And it's just, um. It's. It's. There's grief involved with those, and, um, there's grief over the loss of a friendship, which is something I think is so underestimated, that kind of pain. And I. I think it's. You know, it's what. You don't get bereavement time when your best friend stops talking to you.

Victoria Raschke: Yeah.

Courtney Weber: Like, you don't. And yet, that is a terribly painful loss. Terribly painful. Um, so that was their. Their big thing was to make sure that it wasn't just about death. And I think that's very, very fair. Um, and I was happy to talk about other kinds of grief as well. And, um. So. But, um, you know, as for marketing, it's kind of taking care of itself. I mean, it's. As soon as I said that there's a book for grief out there, I mean, the. The response I've been receiving already has been monumental. Like, I even had people message me privately, asking if there was any way they could look at the book early. They're like, I don't care if it's unedited. I don't care. I just need this book so badly. I'll pay you to look at the unedited manuscript. And, uh, obviously, I, uh, couldn't do that because once you sign a contract, it's out of your hands. But that just was very telling, that somebody would reach out to an author and beg to see the book as they couldn't. They felt they were. They needed. They felt they needed it so badly, they couldn't wait for the June release date. So they're reaching out to her six months early and saying, I will pay you to look at the unedited manuscript. I just need to look at something. And my heart just broke for them. Right. That's such a, uh. And I've also been there where it's like, I just, I don't want to hear another christian say, God has a plan, and I don't want to hear another buddhist say that God doesn't have a plan. Right. Like, I want to. I want to. I need something that's going to help me in the way that I.

Victoria Raschke: Right.

Courtney Weber: Uh, I understand my faith, my spirituality.

Victoria Raschke: M when I think one of the things about the book, like I said earlier, you know, it's really raw, but it's also so personal. Like you, I mean, I think it's a mistake to say, oh, I know this person because I read their book. But I also feel like there's a lot of you in this book, and you're really open and vulnerable about your own griefs. And to me, that's like one of those. One of the gifts of grief is that we all have them, and then sometimes that's how we connect with other people is through that shared sense of loss. And I think, um. And I think that's why I got emotional reading some of the chapters. I mean, especially about your friends in high school, um, being killed, that, um. Just that idea that we've all had those losses of someone far too young and just devastating. And I don't know, I'm getting kind of emotional thinking about it now. But, uh, I think that part of the book is. Is kind of a gift to the reader to get that. I mean, I think one of the things that people are hungry for is to get a window into someone else's practice or their brain when we're talking about witchcraft and how we deal with things. And, like, I'm just imagining as a writer, like, how did you go? Yeah, this is okay for the book. And, no, this stays with me. I can't share this.

Courtney Weber: You know, I am such an oversharer. It's super awkward. I am. I am just the most awkward person at dinner parties because I will just say way too much. And part of it's also just in my. My early experiences, um, I sound so snotty when I say this, but as an autist, my early experiences as an autistic. No, I was part of, um, this open mic scene in New York City in the aughts. And, um, in the aughts, there was just really a desire to be as outrageous as possible. The shock factor was really a big thing. I mean, this was before we had conversations about. And there was no council culture back then. There was like. So, you know, really. It was, I think, probably, you know, just so. Ah, and then this open mic scene. This was before blogs and videos. So people didn't really have an opportunity as much to just say their piece. And so you would get six minutes on the mic to say what was on your mind or to read your poem or to sing your song or do what have you. And this particular scene was so much about the outrageous that, like, nothing was off the table when it comes to what people would share about. And so I got very used very early in my artist journey, um, to just overshare, because if you didn't over share, you weren't sharing enough.

Victoria Raschke: Yeah.

Courtney Weber: And so I've. In some ways, I've had to backpedal and not share too much because sometimes it gets to a point anyway, in writing, when if you share too much, then you start to alienate your reader because the experience becomes so much about you that there's no room for them. You've got to find the middle ground between where you can be vulnerable enough with your own experience, but that the reader still has room to meet you there and stand beside you. If it becomes way too much about you, then there's no room for that. Now, in a memoir, that's a different story, but, uh, this is a book where I want to bring the reader in. So I had to actually step back a few times. Um, and not because it's too personal, I can't say it. Um, but either it would reveal too many details about someone else that would be inappropriate. Um, or I had to step back because I wanted the reader to have room to stand beside me. Um. Um, so that was really the only thing that was off limits other than that. Yeah. Like I said, I'm the worst dinner party guest because I'm just going to overshare till the end of time and. And really make it awkward, but it makes for good writing, so it's okay.

Victoria Raschke: Yeah. Um, well, I think one of the things that I thought was especially vulnerable and also inviting to the reader is you share times when you did the wrong thing or thought the wrong thing or had to correct yourself later. And I think there is this idea that there's some perfect program thing we're supposed to do to either grieve properly or to help someone else grieve or help support them through it, and it's like, you are going to screw up.

Courtney Weber: Yeah.

Victoria Raschke: You know, that's just how it is, because your grief is not their grief.

Courtney Weber: Mm hmm. Yeah. It's absolutely true. And I made that mistake many times. And witches are so bad about this is where they're like, I got a message from your departed so and so. And I'm going to share it with you. And that is just devastating to the person who is getting that. Now, there are exceptions. If you, someone who's very close to you, whom you trust, their experiences is a whole other story. But coming out of left field where you believe you've had an experience with that person. I won't say the name of the person who said this to me, but it's someone who. Her husband had died and he was pretty famous. And, um, she was deeply, deeply in grief. And she would get random Facebook messages from people who said, I got a message from so and so in my dream life last night and would share it with her. And, you know, she looked at me with tears in her eyes and she said, if he's really out there giving messages, why isn't he giving messages to me? And I still have, like, a knot in my stomach when I hear or remember her saying that and how devastating that was for her. Um, and then, you know, I've been on the receiving end of it myself and I've been the one who's also done that to folks and I deeply regret it. Um, you know, it's, it's always done with the best intentions. And they say, well, this person just really wants to help. I know that. I know the person who's wishing my, my spirit baby and Mary Yule meant to be kind. I know the person who did the unsolicited tarot reading about my, my experience that was full of swords in the tower and sent it to me. Like, here's a reading I did for you. I know that person met well, and it still didn't feel good. It's like you hugged someone just after they had surgery. Your hug meant well, but they have an open wound. That hug isn't going to feel good. You have, like, uh, it's so, it's, it's very, very difficult. And I would expect there's probably something, some kind of quote unquote rule on the other side of this veil where deceased people cannot contact their most beloved right away because there seems to be a disconnect there and I, you know, and. But yet they're able to contact others. There may be something like that. There very, very well may be, but, you know, if you're getting the messages, write them down and, and just wait and see what happens. But don't go crashing into someone's DM's with the dream you had about their recently departed person, because chances are it's, it's just going to hurt more than help.

Victoria Raschke: Yeah.

Courtney Weber: Oh, yeah.

Victoria Raschke: I think it like. And, um, kind of someone else's story, too, but I think it's okay. Yes, my sister, uh, but when our mother died, my sister had a dream about her and I didn't, and she shared it with me, and I was really glad she shared it with me because their relationship was very different than my relationship with my mother. We're ten years apart, you know, so there were just differences in how we were raised because my mom was a different person. Ten years.

Courtney Weber: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Victoria Raschke: You know, different, uh, husband, you know, all those things. Um. So initially when she told me about it, I was a little like, well, why didn't she come to me? And then I was like, oh, because you have different business with her. You know, like, hm. And that. But it was also my sister, like, not a stranger or not someone kind of who didn't have a direct link to the same person, you know? So in that case, it was kind of like, yeah, no, I get that. But, yeah, I think if a stranger had come to me with that, I would have been a little spiky.

Courtney Weber: Yeah, it's really tough and it's. Yeah, I have a, uh, one of the. It's. If you read my Morgan book, I mentioned that at the very end of writing the Morgan book, uh, an old friend passed away. And that I mentioned him again in sacred tears because he showed up a few times in some. And I really believe that he showed up in spirit form. I believe he showed up the night before I lost my pregnancy. I believe he has shown up in other ways. He showed up after my husband's father died and said, hey, can I. Can I do anything to help you guys? I know, I understand you've lost someone. Um. I had a dream. Different time. I dreamt that he was saying goodbye to me before he got on, literally, a ferry to cross a river. And, um, I was like, how odd. And then I saw in his widow's facebook page that it was exactly one year ago, like, one year later that he died. I didn't know the date that he died. I just heard, oh, my God, he passed away last week, so it's not like I knew the calendar date, but I do believe that he said goodbye to me. I would never reach out to his wife and tell her these dreams.

Victoria Raschke: Yeah.

Courtney Weber: Um, even though I do believe he's come to me in certain ways and I don't know, maybe he's not able to come to her in the same way. Or maybe he is. Maybe she dreams about him every night. Maybe he shows, who knows?

Victoria Raschke: Um.

Courtney Weber: Um, but I. There's nothing in there that would. Would make her feel good. The only thing that I do in those situations is I just send her a message to ask how she's doing.

Victoria Raschke: Yeah.

Courtney Weber: If in the event that there happens to be, like, a. She has a need and he's showing up to try to get her some help. That's all. Where I just go, hey, I just want you to know I'm thinking about you and the kids. How are you doing? How's it going? And that's it. That's it. I don't go, oh, I had to stream. And this is what he said. And it was so helpful to me and Bernard, or just like, you know, even though I wake up and it's a very powerful feeling, you know, that. But he and I, again, had different business. We were friends. He showed up as a friend, he didn't show up, whereas he was her. Her partner, her love of her life. She was love of his life. Like, their connection would be different and there may be some. Something that prevents us from contacting our spouses on the other side. I don't know.

Victoria Raschke: Yeah, I don't know. It's always interesting to me because I think a lot about, um, like, you know, there is, like, a skeptic in my soul that sometimes I just have to, like, put tape over her mouth and go, no, just touch. But, um, part of me is like, yeah, even if all of this is real, we still don't know the rules. Right? Like, we have the rulebook, so it could be real. And like you said, there's a rule that they can't contact the person they were closest to or, you know, that interferes with their transition or whatever. And I know there's, like, traditions where you don't, like, put them on your ancestor altar or invoke them in any way until like a year and a day after they've died, so they have that time to transition. And whether or not that is a hard and fast rule, I think it is good for the person grieving too.

Courtney Weber: Mhm.

Victoria Raschke: Not trying to hold on to that relationship so tightly and not realize that your life still has to go on. And most likely the person who has died wants your life to go on and for you to find some new way of being that can honor them but isn't about them.

Courtney Weber: Yeah. Yeah. For real. So.

Victoria Raschke: Yeah. All right. Yeah. There's probably, like another ten books.

Courtney Weber: Well, and I. There probably are. And so I hope that other witches consider writing books on grief as well, because mine is not the only way. It's not even a way. It's not. It's a. It's a, you know, uh, it's a guide. It is not the guide. And I. How many, you know, how many guides for each national park there are out there? You know, um, so there's going to be a lot of different guides to grief, and it'd be nice if us, for. If we had. We had a variety, you know, the Christians and the Buddhists have the market corner. That's what I just keep saying. You got to find our own way. Yeah.

Victoria Raschke: Well, I do think I did wonder what I was reading the book, like, just thinking about, you know, a, the fact that you talk about a lot of different times for grief in your own life, including the most recent one, that kind of was the spur for the book. But did you find that either bringing those old griefs up or just concentrating on that idea? So did it change kind of how you thought about your own grief or change how you were grieving?

Courtney Weber: So I think it gave me a broader perspective of what grief looks like and also what closure looks like, because you mentioned the friends that I lost in high school and that there really are no stages of grief. And even Elizabeth Kubler Ross, who first coined them, said, these are not hard and fast stages and they're not meant for every kind of grief.

Victoria Raschke: Mhm.

Courtney Weber: So in the moments where it's like, gosh, why do I still get emotional when I think about those friends that I lost? It's not as though I miss them from my everyday life, but my relationship to the loss has changed. The grief changes, the anger changes, and, you know, it's, you know, you come up, you bump into these points periodically, and over time, as the spiral gets, as any spiral gets bigger, as you go further away from the center, you don't hit those points of grief as often. They don't consume you anymore. But you might still trip over anger.

Victoria Raschke: Yeah.

Courtney Weber: You know, you might still, like, sometimes I do get mad when I think, damn it, these kids never got to do anything really stupid with their lives.

Victoria Raschke: Yeah.

Courtney Weber: Like, that's something I got mad about when I would make really huge mistakes, and then I would think of them and be like, wow, they never had the opportunity to get involved with a married man, you know, and, like, those kinds of things where you could just look back and go, ah, that was so dumb, you know, and. And. But you just, do we deserve to just have our train wreck moments? We deserve our dumpster fire memories. And that was that, you know, has made me angry that life denied them of that, you know, that they never got to look back on their, their, you know, their little nineties teenage self and cringe at all, even though those were, like, two of the coolest kids ever. I can't imagine anything cringe or be.

Victoria Raschke: Grateful that social media didn't exist in the nineties.

Courtney Weber: Oh, so grateful. Oh, God, the things I would have posted. Yeah. I just probably would have just gone into the convent, not because I believed in Catholicism anymore, but just because I'm like, I don't want anyone to see me ever again. But, um. No, um. But also gave me an idea on closure, because one of the things I talk about is the ending of my last relationship before I met my husband and how just the grief and anger and rage I had over that and the search I had for closure, which ultimately was just about at the end of the day, he just didn't want to be with me. And that there was a long time after that where I was trying to find the quote unquote answer, like, why did he leave? Why did he end things? Why? Why? There must have been a reason. Because I didn't want to see the real reason. I did not want to accept that he chose not to. Because he didn't want to.

Victoria Raschke: Yeah.

Courtney Weber: And that I had to, you know, get to a. I had to realize, uh, that the closure was inside of me and not going to come from outside. It wasn't going to come from him. It wasn't going to come from a tarot reading. It wasn't going to come from some kind of grand, ritualistic thing where the goddess possesses someone and gives me a total edict on what happened with being our two life paths that they wouldn't cross. And it was like he didn't want to be with me. It's, uh, it. He just wasn't that into me, whatever you want to call it. Yeah, but that. The search for closure, sometimes that. That prevents us from. From healing, right? When it's not the creation of closure, it's not closure itself. It's the search for the kind of closure we want to have.

Victoria Raschke: Right?

Courtney Weber: And that we look for it outside of ourselves. We look for it in answers from other people. We look at it in, um, answers from spirit. We look at answers from, you know, from readings and such. But, uh, you know, in recognizing that sometimes there is no reason why something happened, that sometimes things are just really screwed up, sometimes someone just simply does not love us enough to. And it's not even about loving us enough. It's about wanting to be there and recognizing that loving someone enough and wanting to be beside them is. Are two different things. And it just sometimes comes down to something happened because it happened, and there's no grand meaning behind it. And that is a really terrifying, humbling realization, especially when. When it's a really great loss, we want it to mean something. I mean, if we suffered the way that we did, there should have been a purpose behind it, right? And the possibility that there's not a purpose behind it is so devastating. But yet, at the same time, when we can finally choose to accept that conclusion, we find peace there. You know? And it's. But that's the thing about closure. It is what we create within ourselves. It is not found outside of ourselves. It is not found from someone else's words, someone else's actions. Like, yeah, uh. Uh. There was a long time where I really wanted my ex to apologize, and, like, I could not really come to peace with it until not only could he need to apologize, he needed to know exactly how much he'd hurt me. And m. I finally got to a place where it's like, I had to. I realized I am holding off on. I'm giving him power over my healing. M. And that I do not need his apology, and I do not need his understanding of the damage he caused in order for me to heal. I can still heal. Whether or not he ever chooses to apologize, accept his responsibility, et cetera, et cetera, that's on him. That's his journey.

Victoria Raschke: Yeah.

Courtney Weber: Right. And it has nothing to do with me. And that was a huge moment of closure I created for myself that I took it back from putting it in someone else's hands and took it back for me.

Victoria Raschke: So, on the note about closure, we're going to move on to the end here. So, do you want to give people, like, an idea of where to find you if you want to be found? And, uh, what's coming up for you? Like I said, this will air the end of August.

Courtney Weber: Okay, so best way to find me is on Instagram and TikTok. So my handle is Courtney a. Weber. That's Weber with one b. Um, I have a virtual. If your people are looking to. If people are looking to either deepen or reconnect with their witchcraft practice, you can go to my virtual platform, which is called the cauldron calling. I host it on Patreon. So that is patreon.com courtneyaweber. And that is where you can get all of my content I publish, uh, several times a week. Plus you can, um, get join, uh, these bi monthly circles where you basically bring all your witchy shit there and we sort through it together and figure out what's going on. Um, and even at certain levels, you can get tarot subscriptions. So you get tarot readings into your inbox monthly, which is extremely helpful in this busy world to be able to look back on it periodically. Um, I am going to be a keynote presenter at the northwest Tarot symposium in September out here in Oregon. Would love to see folks there in November. I am co facilitating a in person retreat, um, based on the Morgan. It's called meeting at the ford of Morgan immersion with Laura O'Brien, Jonas Sullivan, and yo, um, Carla Gaskins. Nathan, that is full. So I'm afraid I don't have any more space there. But that won't be the last time I host something like that. So if you're following me in all the places, and then also my website is courtneyaweber.com, and that's where you can book readings with me, connect with me, see what else I have going on. Um, and yeah, I should be having some other classes, virtual and in person this coming fall. Would love to see folks there.

Victoria Raschke: Awesome. Well, cool. And by the time this comes out, the book will be out, too. And I'll put things in the show notes for all that, for your book.

Courtney Weber: And sacred tears, which is guide to grief. And if you've already read it, please, please, please leave me a review on Amazon. I think what we really need, it helps me, but it also helps booksellers know that witches need books on grief as well.

Victoria Raschke: Yeah.

Courtney Weber: Okay.

Victoria Raschke: Uh, it's really important. Boom. So for our little game of chance at the end, um. Um, I. Like. I'm, um, Scorpio. Like, to talk about stuff you're not supposed to talk about.

Courtney Weber: Yay.

Victoria Raschke: So I'm gonna roll a die. And depending on what I get, you will get a question about death, sex, religion, politics, or money. And if I roll a six, you get to pick what you want.

Courtney Weber: All right.

Victoria Raschke: And you can pass. Oh, let's see what die, uh, has in store for us today. I am going to roll again because it landed weird. Two sex.

Courtney Weber: Yeah. Juicy.

Victoria Raschke: So this is kind of related to grief, but also just a weird question that I thought of when I was writing your questions. So there is an adage or an old wives tale. I'm not really sure how you want to couch this, that basically funerals make people horny. And I have thoughts about this, but I would love to hear your thoughts about it. Yes or no, and why?

Courtney Weber: Well, I have never shagged after a funeral, but I can believe that for a number of reasons. One is that grief makes all of our senses super heightened. And there may be a desire, um, where you want to feel something that is not grief. I think about, um, high fidelity at the very end of the movie. Spoiler alert, for a movie that's been out for 20 years, um, where, uh, um, what's his name's girlfriend, um, is like, it's at her dad's funeral and she's in great grief. And she stops the car and says, I want to have sex right now because I want to feel something other than this. Right. So I certainly do believe that's the case. It's just kind of like when people laugh at funerals because your emotions are so heightened that certain things that maybe shouldn't be funny are all of a sudden hysterical. Um, I have never shagged at a funeral, but I have laughed at funerals. Again, very awkward, you know, but it's just like, you just, ah, uh, you know. Yeah, so, yeah, that's, that's so. I believe it. I certainly do. I remember one of the things that was after this actually kind of relates to it. Um, you know, I mentioned I had just two friends that passed away in a car accident that was also the same year that wild things came out, which was like the saucy movie, you know, which was about like this triad with Neve Campbell and forget, uh, the other actress. Um, and you know, the, when we heard about the accident, they closed school for the day, is very small school, and sent everybody home. And, you know, some of the kids went to other people's houses. The parents weren't off work yet. It was the nineties. So, you know, we were on our own. And, um, a bunch of kids got together and watched wild things. And I remember one of my friends was just so appalled by that. Like, that's so disrespectful. How dare they? Da da da. Uh, and at the time, I didn't know what to make of it. But now, as an adult.

Victoria Raschke: Mhm.

Courtney Weber: Looking back at teenagers who had just experienced death, wanting to go watch a movie about sex and murder, I think makes perfect sense. Like, your senses are heightened, you don't want to think about death. Um, you're also have this opportunity to watch this movie because your parents aren't home. Um, I. And, uh, I was like, yeah, I don't know if it's appropriate, but I think it's perfectly understandable that that's what these kids wanted to do, was to watch this very illicit, at the time, very illicit movie about, you know, threesomes in a swimming pool.

Victoria Raschke: Like, yeah, uh, I mean, yeah, I think that is how it works. And I think it's funny, because what I was thinking about this not is more the laughing than the sexy part, but, uh, uh, when my mom died, we waited about a month, and the morning of her service of life, we, my siblings and I, went and scattered her and my dad's ashes together because she wanted. She wanted us to wait to scatter his until they could do it together. So we had kind of had our funeral that morning for them, and then we went to the service of life, which was at a, um, funeral home. And, you know, we did the whole thing. And my family is huge. I have six brothers and sisters. Everybody's married, everybody has kids. You know, we're just a huge family, and, you know, we were laughing and telling stories, and just because we don't all get to see each other very often, right? So. And when the minister that kind of knew my mom, like, he'd visit her and assisted living and stuff, but didn't really know her family got up to speak, he was like, this is the weirdest funeral I've ever been to. And I was like, welcome to my family. Hey, we are all about gallows humor. And also, uh, just, like, you know, mom had been sick for a really long time. You know, she. We waited, like, a month, and so we had all had time to process some stuff, and then we got to see everybody and kind of process that together. So it probably was weird for someone walking into that, but for us, that was just kind of how we roll, so.

Courtney Weber: Yeah, I mean, it is what it is.

Victoria Raschke: Yep. Exactly. Well, Courtney, this was so much fun, and thank you. Um, I don't think that I will ever can't be happy for the reason this book exists and don't want to be, but I am glad it exists, and I'm glad it is out there and that people can get it, especially those people who needed it six months ago. Hopefully, they can get a copy now.

Courtney Weber: I hope so.

Victoria Raschke: And just, you know, have something that feels a little closer to the experience of someone in witchcraft or the occult, then a Buddhist or Christian, with or without a God plan. Yeah, thank you for that.

Courtney Weber: I appreciate it, and thank you so much for having me. And, um, I. I'm sorry for the reason anybody might want to pick up the book, but I'm glad that they have it, if that helps.

Victoria Raschke: Same. Same. Awesome. Well, let's do this again when your novel gets published.

Courtney Weber: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Agents, let's make a ton of money. Let's do it.

Victoria Raschke: Let's do it. All right. Thanks so much.

Courtney Weber: Thanks, Victoria.

Victoria Raschke: Witchlit is a production of Thousand Volt Press and is edited by Julian Raschke. Our intro music is cosmic Glow by Andrew K. And our outro music is voices by Alexander Shanekar. Transcripts and all our previous episodes are available@witchlitpod.com. and you can follow us on, um, Instagram Witchlit pod. Please help other witches find us by leaving a rating or review wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you for listening to and reading witch WitchLit.